Fvwm and Wayland

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Fvwm and Wayland

Postby scientific » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:52 pm

Hi there!

There ist wayland which should replace X11. And i read some articles about wayland. So i recognized, that, if X11 is gone, fvwm isn't needed any longer...

So, why do i need wayland? And what is the Future of Fvwm, when the big Distributions think, they need Wayland, because many new Applications are based on Wayland, and X11 dies.

What are your (the developers of Fvwm) thoughts about this future? Should Linux really became a new Windows, where the graphical system is part of the system? Only one graphical interface, where i can only change the color of the background???

What do you think about?

scientific
Debian squeeze, 2.6.32-5-amd64
fvwm 2.6.1 compiled on Apr 26 2011 at 15:45:54
with support for: ReadLine, XPM, PNG, Shape, XShm, SM, Xinerama, XRender, XCursor, XFT, NLS
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Re: Fvwm and Wayland

Postby TF » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:44 pm

scientific wrote:Hi there!

There ist wayland which should replace X11. And i read some articles about wayland. So i recognized, that, if X11 is gone, fvwm isn't needed any longer...
This is the way all window manager based on xlib will go :?

scientific wrote:So, why do i need wayland?
You don't. As the wayland FAQ said
It could replace X as the native Linux graphics server, but I'm sure X will always be there on the side. I imagine that Wayland and X will coexist in two ways on a Linux desktop: ... host several X servers as they push their root window to Wayland as surfaces. The compositor in this case will be a dedicated session switcher that will cross-fade between X servers or spin them on a cube.
Further down the road we run a user session natively under Wayland with clients written for Wayland. There will still (always) be X applications to run, but we now run these under a root-less X server that is itself a client of the Wayland server. ... or running a composited X desktop, where the compositor is a Wayland client, pushing the composited desktop to Wayland.
So from that point I think xorg will be shipped a long period of time with most distributions

scientific wrote:And what is the Future of Fvwm, when the big Distributions think, they need Wayland, because many new Applications are based on Wayland, and X11 dies.
There're three possiblilities:
1. Someone starts to exchange xlib in FVWM. But this is a complete rewrite of FVWM ...
2. Someone starts to developing a new FVWM based on the reference Compositor Weston and transfer the complete command structure into it. Or, what is better try to create a new structure of commands as discussed on the mailing lists for FVWM3 / google summer of code and write a conversion tool for FVWM2 configs if possible.
3. Use FVWM with X11 as long as possible xorg will be shipped with a distribution.

scientific wrote:What are your (the developers of Fvwm) thoughts about this future?
I can only speak for me and I think that most of us developers haven't enough time to lift weights like that. I've discussed the second point with a friend of mine and it would a interest challange but without a good planing and enough manpower it is impossible/takes too long to develop a new FVWM based on Weston.

scientific wrote:and Should Linux really became a new Windows, where the graphical system is part of the system? Only one graphical interface, where i can only change the color of the background???
At the moment you have the same - one graphical system => X11. With the wayland architecture you have the same different graphical interfaces as now. See here. Ok not so many as on X but this will grow over the years.

- Thomas -

[Edit:] I found minutes ago a very interessting article: The Wayland Situation: Facts About X vs. Wayland
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Albert Einstein
Fvwm version: 2.6.5
Fvwm config: Fvwm-Nightshade
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